Beware Seibon Carbon Fiber Hoods
#1
10-14-2009, 10:10 AM
Beware Seibon Carbon Fiber Hoods
I wanted to share the following experience with the community with regard to hoods manufactured by Seibon Carbon, so that everyone is adequately forwarned as to the quality and customer support they can expect. I own a 1995 BMW 318ti, and the following is an email exchange between myself and Seibon Carbon, concerning a Seibon hood I purchased through Illstreet in South Carolina. I purchased this hood, which turned out to be pure garbage, and which sits a good 5/8" above my fenderline (see attached photo). So caveat emptor when it comes to buying Seibon Carbon my friends....
[/b]From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: Hood Fitment[/b]
A couple months ago I purchased a Model No. HD9298BMWE364D-OE carbon fiber hood for my BMW. This weekend I finally got around to installing it. There is a problem however. The fit is fine everywhere except the sides. To be clear, the distance between (gap) the edge of the hood and the inner edge of the fenders is fine. The front to back length is fine. The hood opens and shuts beautifully. The problem is that the top of the hood at the sides is not flush with the top of the fenders, i.e., the top of hood is significantly higher, especially towards the front of the car, almost like it is bowed. Pressing down on one or the other front hood corners takes care of the problem on a given side. The front center of the hood is down tight against the area where the BMW kidney grills are (and I have installed brand new hood latch mechanisms), so there's no problem there. It is just the front top sides and to a lesser extent the top in general (back about halfway to the windshield) sticking up above the tops of both fenders. We're talking 3/8 - 1/2". Can you advise me of a solution for this problem? Thanks.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:57 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Please send us images of the fitment. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:50 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
See attached images. As I said the hood fits nicely all around excepting the front side tops don't line up with the tops of the fenders. You CAN easily push the hood down at those spots and it fits perfect. I'm speculating that the underside of the hood is hitting the rubber cushion strip that surrounds the engine bay. But I know that it surely isn't proper to install any hood without that rubber cushion strip in place.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:41 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich, Let me ask you one question. Do you have the hood shocks or Dampers on the hood? This is what it looks like. If so you might have already warped the hood. Please note that we do not recommend using the stock dampers or hood shocks. Please advise. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
No, I have not have yet installed any hood shocks/dampers. I just put the hood on the car this past Sunday and what you see in the photos was its fit from the beginning using only the hood hinges at the rear of the hood. The car has not been driven, either. I wanted to wait to see the fitment before considering using any shocks/dampers, given that you do not recommend using shocks/dampers. It really is strange that the thing fits perfectly all around except that it simply sticks up too high over the fender tops towards the front end, and that merely pushing down gently on the high area pushes the hood down to a flush alignment with the top(s) of the fender(s) on each respective side. Is this a common issue with Seibon hoods, and how can it be addressed? Thanks.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Please send us the images of the bottom of the hood please. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:54 AM
To: 'info@seiboncarbon.com'
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Attached are several images from the bottom of the hood. I'm curious as to where we are going with this, and request to be provided with an actual name of someone to deal with at your company. The bottom line is there are only two options open to remedy the problem with this ill-fitting hood. One would be to install hood pins, which would pull the hood down and keep the front sides of the hood level with the tops of the fenders. The other option would be for me to write off my interest in having a carbon fiber hood altogether and return this defective one. Frankly either option will involve expense to me to which I should not be subject. I am already out approximately $150 extra because you guys originally sent the wrong hood for my car, which I had to return. If hood pins are required to make these hoods fit properly that should be clearly stated before purchase, not simply that hood pins are "recommended" for safety purposes. Now I'm stuck with a hood that I'm into for roughly $680 and it is apparently defective. I don't mind getting hood pins installed, but this is turning into a mighty expensive exercise to just get a simple hood for my car, and I chose Seibon primarily because its reputation for quality in order to avoid these very issues.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:53 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment
Can someone please answer this inquiry or give me the name of someone I can deal with directly? Thank you.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich, we have reviewed your email and it really does not explain anything. I have read the email on the bottom. When have we ever shipped you a wrong hood? I’m not sure what happened there. but here is a situation where are you located? This is what we might have to do. I might have you go to one of my dealers and have them take a look at it for me. And see what is wrong with your hood or if this is just an installation error which I highly doubt. But if this is a defective hood there is no worries. We will happily send you out a replacement. Please let us know. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:10 PM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
I am located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. My car is a 1995 BMW 318ti (hatchback). Originally I was advised that it used the hood from a 2-door model, and based upon your company's recommendation that is what I purchased. It was much too narrow in width. Turns out that this particular car uses the hood from the 4-door sedan (I verified this thru BMW), so I had to return the 2-door hood version and get the 4-door version, which is correct. But now the fitment issues that you see in the photos attached to the original email. Do you have a dealer in the Pittsburgh area?
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:20 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Oh ok, now I see. I’m not sure what the dealer has told you but please do not that this hood is not made for your vehicle sir. I’m not sure where you got this information. Please note that the body and the frame is different. Please do note that even in our price list and application we have specified that this item does not fit the 318 models. I actually do not have a dealer in your area. The closest to you is either in New York. Please let me know.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:24 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 318ti hood is 41618135344. The serial number for an E36 3-Series 328i 4-door Sedan is the same: 41618135344. They are exactly the same and interchangeable. The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 2-door Coupe is 41618135346, and it will fit neither the 318ti compact nor any 4-door sedan. Finally, please tell me where in your price list or application you say the item does not fit 318 models, because even if it's there it's wrong. You simply have to make sure you buy the FOUR DOOR version of the hood to fit a 318ti. Thank you.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:33 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich please go ahead and visit our site and look under dealer programs. There is a price list and application list on there. We have specified that all 2dr hoods excludes 318 models. Please note that we are not BMW and will not go with BMW part numbers. We are not planning to buy this hood and make it for the 318 model. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:43 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Okay, I'll try this once more. Originally I bought the 2dr hood from you. It did not fit so I returned it. Investigation revealed that the 318ti does not use a 2dr hood. Investigation revealed that the 318ti uses the standard 4dr hood. So I bought the 4dr hood from you, which is what I have now. It fits perfectly except that it is defective in being bowed, as the photos I sent clearly show. I do NOT have the 2dr hood. I KNOW the 2dr hood does not work on the 318ti. I DO know that the 318ti takes the standard 4dr hood. You do not have to make any special hood for a 318ti because it uses the standard 4dr hood. I hope this clears up things somewhat. Thank you.
[/b]From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment[/b]
Ok Rich thank you for the information given to us. But as we said unfortunately we will not specify or add the 318 model onto our application. Please understand that yes you have probably done your research on it but as we still said this hood is not made for the 318 model. Please also understand that this is a aftermarket hood and we are not BMW so we can not go with BMW part numbers to figure out a fitment. We really do not know the reason of why your hood sits like that but we sell these hoods on a regular basis and we never come across issues with the fitment.
For a detailed discussion of this whole fiasco go to the following.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28301
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1324247
I simply asked for the respect any customer deserves when receiving a defective product, and this is how Seibon treated me.
[/b]From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: Hood Fitment[/b]
A couple months ago I purchased a Model No. HD9298BMWE364D-OE carbon fiber hood for my BMW. This weekend I finally got around to installing it. There is a problem however. The fit is fine everywhere except the sides. To be clear, the distance between (gap) the edge of the hood and the inner edge of the fenders is fine. The front to back length is fine. The hood opens and shuts beautifully. The problem is that the top of the hood at the sides is not flush with the top of the fenders, i.e., the top of hood is significantly higher, especially towards the front of the car, almost like it is bowed. Pressing down on one or the other front hood corners takes care of the problem on a given side. The front center of the hood is down tight against the area where the BMW kidney grills are (and I have installed brand new hood latch mechanisms), so there's no problem there. It is just the front top sides and to a lesser extent the top in general (back about halfway to the windshield) sticking up above the tops of both fenders. We're talking 3/8 - 1/2". Can you advise me of a solution for this problem? Thanks.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:57 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Please send us images of the fitment. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:50 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
See attached images. As I said the hood fits nicely all around excepting the front side tops don't line up with the tops of the fenders. You CAN easily push the hood down at those spots and it fits perfect. I'm speculating that the underside of the hood is hitting the rubber cushion strip that surrounds the engine bay. But I know that it surely isn't proper to install any hood without that rubber cushion strip in place.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:41 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich, Let me ask you one question. Do you have the hood shocks or Dampers on the hood? This is what it looks like. If so you might have already warped the hood. Please note that we do not recommend using the stock dampers or hood shocks. Please advise. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
No, I have not have yet installed any hood shocks/dampers. I just put the hood on the car this past Sunday and what you see in the photos was its fit from the beginning using only the hood hinges at the rear of the hood. The car has not been driven, either. I wanted to wait to see the fitment before considering using any shocks/dampers, given that you do not recommend using shocks/dampers. It really is strange that the thing fits perfectly all around except that it simply sticks up too high over the fender tops towards the front end, and that merely pushing down gently on the high area pushes the hood down to a flush alignment with the top(s) of the fender(s) on each respective side. Is this a common issue with Seibon hoods, and how can it be addressed? Thanks.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Please send us the images of the bottom of the hood please. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:54 AM
To: 'info@seiboncarbon.com'
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Attached are several images from the bottom of the hood. I'm curious as to where we are going with this, and request to be provided with an actual name of someone to deal with at your company. The bottom line is there are only two options open to remedy the problem with this ill-fitting hood. One would be to install hood pins, which would pull the hood down and keep the front sides of the hood level with the tops of the fenders. The other option would be for me to write off my interest in having a carbon fiber hood altogether and return this defective one. Frankly either option will involve expense to me to which I should not be subject. I am already out approximately $150 extra because you guys originally sent the wrong hood for my car, which I had to return. If hood pins are required to make these hoods fit properly that should be clearly stated before purchase, not simply that hood pins are "recommended" for safety purposes. Now I'm stuck with a hood that I'm into for roughly $680 and it is apparently defective. I don't mind getting hood pins installed, but this is turning into a mighty expensive exercise to just get a simple hood for my car, and I chose Seibon primarily because its reputation for quality in order to avoid these very issues.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:53 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment
Can someone please answer this inquiry or give me the name of someone I can deal with directly? Thank you.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich, we have reviewed your email and it really does not explain anything. I have read the email on the bottom. When have we ever shipped you a wrong hood? I’m not sure what happened there. but here is a situation where are you located? This is what we might have to do. I might have you go to one of my dealers and have them take a look at it for me. And see what is wrong with your hood or if this is just an installation error which I highly doubt. But if this is a defective hood there is no worries. We will happily send you out a replacement. Please let us know. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:10 PM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
I am located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. My car is a 1995 BMW 318ti (hatchback). Originally I was advised that it used the hood from a 2-door model, and based upon your company's recommendation that is what I purchased. It was much too narrow in width. Turns out that this particular car uses the hood from the 4-door sedan (I verified this thru BMW), so I had to return the 2-door hood version and get the 4-door version, which is correct. But now the fitment issues that you see in the photos attached to the original email. Do you have a dealer in the Pittsburgh area?
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:20 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Oh ok, now I see. I’m not sure what the dealer has told you but please do not that this hood is not made for your vehicle sir. I’m not sure where you got this information. Please note that the body and the frame is different. Please do note that even in our price list and application we have specified that this item does not fit the 318 models. I actually do not have a dealer in your area. The closest to you is either in New York. Please let me know.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:24 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 318ti hood is 41618135344. The serial number for an E36 3-Series 328i 4-door Sedan is the same: 41618135344. They are exactly the same and interchangeable. The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 2-door Coupe is 41618135346, and it will fit neither the 318ti compact nor any 4-door sedan. Finally, please tell me where in your price list or application you say the item does not fit 318 models, because even if it's there it's wrong. You simply have to make sure you buy the FOUR DOOR version of the hood to fit a 318ti. Thank you.
From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:33 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Hi Rich please go ahead and visit our site and look under dealer programs. There is a price list and application list on there. We have specified that all 2dr hoods excludes 318 models. Please note that we are not BMW and will not go with BMW part numbers. We are not planning to buy this hood and make it for the 318 model. Thank you.
From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:43 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment
Okay, I'll try this once more. Originally I bought the 2dr hood from you. It did not fit so I returned it. Investigation revealed that the 318ti does not use a 2dr hood. Investigation revealed that the 318ti uses the standard 4dr hood. So I bought the 4dr hood from you, which is what I have now. It fits perfectly except that it is defective in being bowed, as the photos I sent clearly show. I do NOT have the 2dr hood. I KNOW the 2dr hood does not work on the 318ti. I DO know that the 318ti takes the standard 4dr hood. You do not have to make any special hood for a 318ti because it uses the standard 4dr hood. I hope this clears up things somewhat. Thank you.
[/b]From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment[/b]
Ok Rich thank you for the information given to us. But as we said unfortunately we will not specify or add the 318 model onto our application. Please understand that yes you have probably done your research on it but as we still said this hood is not made for the 318 model. Please also understand that this is a aftermarket hood and we are not BMW so we can not go with BMW part numbers to figure out a fitment. We really do not know the reason of why your hood sits like that but we sell these hoods on a regular basis and we never come across issues with the fitment.
For a detailed discussion of this whole fiasco go to the following.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28301
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1324247
I simply asked for the respect any customer deserves when receiving a defective product, and this is how Seibon treated me.
Last edited by RichieRich; 10-14-2009 at 10:17 AM.
#2
10-17-2009, 04:01 PM
End of Story
The dealer from which I purchased this hood stepped up to the plate and did the honorable thing by offering to refund my money if I provided photographic proof that the hood was destroyed and could not be reused. The hood was therefore destroyed this morning. Backed over it with a 2003 BMW 330xi, and when to my great surprise that didn't completely accomplish the task I took a circular saw to it. The dealer did not identify himself on this forum so I will not do so now. Nevertheless, I am very grateful that he facilitated a postive outcome to this matter.
#3
11-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Beware Seibon Carbon Fiber Hoods
Dude...thats very Old news It was discoverd already last year so any normal AV will protect one from this crap.
/UpNorth
/UpNorth
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